This entry was posted on June 23, 2010 by Erik. It was filed under Bible, Christianity, Church, Church Planting, Emergent, Faith, God, Jesus, Missional, Spirituality and was tagged with Expressions, Faith.

2 Responses

1. 

   tim bits

   hey erik,

   it looks pretty good. i just have a couple questions/ puzzlements going on in my brain. the firat two revolve around the “holistically enacted faith” part of the beliefs. first what does “holistically enacted faith” mean? and second what happens if they dont express their faith holistically?are they doomed for hell/ not saved or something like that?

   and third, i recall us once having a discussion on baptism. in that conversation, didnt you express that full immersion isnt a nessisity? if you did, then why express full immersion in the statement of faith?

   just some thoughts i had on that.

   June 25, 2010 at 7:42 pm
   

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2. 

   Erik

   These are great questions Tim and I’m really glad you asked them so we can begin talking about them. Let me try and explain some of the thoughts between each of these issues by dividing them below.

   First let’s look at “holistically enacted faith”.

   I think it is within our belief that God created us with a physical body, a psyche or mind, and a soul or spirit just as we are in his likeness. (Gen. 1:26a; Luke 10:27) – (Side question: should we include this belief in our statement?)

   In this same sense I think we’ve tended to draw dichotomies or divisions within our created identities so that in the mirage of earthly existence we tend to say what we do spiritually has no bearing on what we do physically and visa versa. But that belief is just that; a mirage and false representation of who our real being and identity is (Rom. 6:1-2). By committing and uniting who we are in Christ spiritually with who we are mentally and physically; practicing each holistically in unison, we can truly follow Jesus into a holistic enactment of faith.

   C.S. Lewis said it this way, “Christians have often disputed as to whether what leads the Christian home is good actions or Faith in Christ… It does seem to me like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most necessary. A serious moral effort is the only thing that will bring you to the point where you throw in the towel. Faith in Christ is the only thing to save you from despair at that point: and out of the Faith in Him good actions must inevitably come.”

   As too your second question, “What happens if they don’t express their faith holistically? Are they doomed for hell, not saved or something like that?”

   Can I ask a question in return? – Can you truly separate a person’s soul from there body? Can you completely stop a person’s actions from causing real effects to their spirituality? Can you prevent a person’s beliefs, whatever they may be, from affecting their daily behaviors? I don’t know about you but I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to do this in there life.

   Just last week I was having a conversation with a coworker in the lunch room who believed that her life was best lived “with no attachments of any kind”. Not relationally, materially, in personal history, or spiritually. After digging a little deeper into the context of her faith I asked her a deeply personal question; “So, being that you do not believe in any attachments of any kind; does this mean that the actions and feelings of your parents towards you in growing up have no effect or meaning on who you are today?”

   Shyly she slowly answered, “Yes, sort of.”

   I asked again kindly, “So is this an expression of attachment?”

   Here is the thing Tim and I think it is what James was getting at in his Epistle in chapter 2:18. If a person is confessing Jesus as Lord over their life (holistically), then it will naturally affect every part of who they are in unison. If it did not, then it is no confession or faith at all. It is important however, to maintain a vision of that Lordship in harmony so as not to differentiate our selves from our creator. If we did not keep this in practice it would be far easier for the enemy to divide our thoughts (immorality, anger, slander, ect.) from our actions and again, visa versa.

   As for a persons final destination… to be short that is not for me to judge. Yes I believe Jesus to be the final judge over all things and yes I find myself in confession that there is no other way to be in a real relationship with God and Truth except through him (John 14:6). That said, if others are to be in another faith, I may not agree with their beliefs, I may differ from their understanding of truth but, this does not mean I cannot be in relationship with them. Judgment is between them and God; I only hope I might be a tool in which Jesus might speak into their lives about the love, acceptance, and real truth he offers.

   Finally towards Baptism…

   Yes, for personal reasons which you are well aware of, I too struggled with the wording of this and I think we need to still work on this too in the sense of it being a “believer’s baptism”.

   Here is the short end of it I guess Tim. In the Biblical sense I agree that the context of Baptism was an emersional practice. (Rom. 6:3-4; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:36-38; ect.). I feel a need as a pastor to maintain this wherever possible. That said, I don’t feel God would want it practiced legalistically so as to exclude peoples such as you and I who face extraordinary physical challenges making it not necessarily impossible but extremely humiliating to the point of dangerous and life threatening. Together maybe you and I can explore ways in which to better word this. Any suggestions?

   Here are some of the dangers of setting a side a Biblical picture of a “Believers Full Immersion Baptism”. Why not infant baptism? How about Baptism of the dead? What if a person just don’t feel like getting wet and would rather we just sprinkled them? What if they don’t want to be baptized with water at all? Or they want to be baptized with something else, Cool Aid for example?

   These are really deep questions Tim and it is difficult to answer them shortly and concisely. I hope some of these answers help and might stimulate more conversation between us. As you know, work and time make answering in a quick manner difficult to do so thank you for your patients.

   June 27, 2010 at 10:14 pm
   

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