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	<title>Comments on: The Top Ten Biblical People I would Like to Meet</title>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/06/13/the-top-ten-biblical-people-i-would-like-to-meet/#comment-975</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erik]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justwondering.wordpress.com/?p=387#comment-975</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kate,

In truth I was hesitant to respond to your comment unsure whether you wanted a response. I sense a great deal of pain in you to the way in which “Christianity” or maybe religion in itself may have hurt you in the past. I would like to share with you an answer which is two fold. First are my thoughts to the evidences you give in your comment and second is an address to the emotion and pain you share behind your words.

In your first few sentences you spoke of many Old Testament characters such as Moses, David, and Solomon as barbaric ignoramuses which we would have little in common with and be ashamed to be seen with. My thoughts are that this statement cannot be made unless an assumed measure of bias is already in place. I do not think any of us have met these characters and it would then be difficult to say how we would feel or who they are intellectually simply on the bases of human interpretation.

That said, you are right when it is written in scripture that murder and rape happened to both Israelites and others (Isa. 13:16; Lam. 5:11; 1 King 21:19). It is shocking and moving to the heart and emotions. Most definitely difficult to understand and emotionally gripping. It does not say anywhere however that Moses or any other Jewish leaders were a part of such ugliness and Deut. 22:25-27 speaks against it with heavy judgment.

The Bible however is never meant to be read as a dictated or word for word advocacy from God. It is a record of history and what cultures and contexts of that time did. God’s truth relates to us through it and even today sadly we can find similarities to current events which have happened in South Africa, the Middle East, and even the violence in North America. Your comment to the abolishment of slavery itself does not speak to the fact that the slave trade and work of human trafficking is higher today then it ever was before the legal abolishment of such activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

God still calls us to seek his justice, love, and Kingdom (Gen. 4:9-10; Luke 11:42; Luke 12:31). It is a Kingdom of the heart and mind and not current or historical evidences and not ideological and religious conceptualizations. It is a Kingdom of Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, and Kindness for all without judgment, prejudgment, or the expectation of complete agreement and conformity (Gal. 5:22-23). I ask, who are we that we might take on divinity to ourselves and speak over all others in judgment whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, or otherwise? No, let us let God be judge.

The verse you bring up where Jesus speaks of the Gentiles as dogs is most interesting when you consider the full context of the situation (Matt. 7:24-30). Who else may have been present? Why did he use this insult? In truth, Jesus was subverting the insult to those who used it most - those who where the religious figures themselves and most likely the ones who were watching him (vs. 24). Jesus is in radical reformation favorable to the Gentiles (Matt. 6:32; Matt. 12:18 ) and even in this context heals or sets free the woman’s daughter from the demon; something which would have infuriated the Jewish religious leaders themselves.

I could go on Kate but I am more concerned about the voice in which you commented on this post. You seem very hurt by the religious institutions which may exist in our world and perhaps rightfully so. I do not dismiss the wrong doings in history of both Christian institutions and other religious institutions. They are all not without fault. Perhaps there is also something more personal behind your pain too I do not know.

What I would like to offer you is some comfort in that God still knows you and loves you Kate (Isa. 49:15; John 15:9). I wish I had better opportunity to reach out to you and be a friend despite our differences and perhaps different beliefs. I wish I had the space and opportunity to speak further with regards to the many challenges you brought forth in your comment. I hope this offers you some solace as you will be in my wife’s and my thoughts and prayers over the coming days. You must be in search of something Kate or you would not have come across this post. I pray you find what it is you are looking for and I pray you find the truth and a sense of peace in your heart.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate,</p>
<p>In truth I was hesitant to respond to your comment unsure whether you wanted a response. I sense a great deal of pain in you to the way in which “Christianity” or maybe religion in itself may have hurt you in the past. I would like to share with you an answer which is two fold. First are my thoughts to the evidences you give in your comment and second is an address to the emotion and pain you share behind your words.</p>
<p>In your first few sentences you spoke of many Old Testament characters such as Moses, David, and Solomon as barbaric ignoramuses which we would have little in common with and be ashamed to be seen with. My thoughts are that this statement cannot be made unless an assumed measure of bias is already in place. I do not think any of us have met these characters and it would then be difficult to say how we would feel or who they are intellectually simply on the bases of human interpretation.</p>
<p>That said, you are right when it is written in scripture that murder and rape happened to both Israelites and others (Isa. 13:16; Lam. 5:11; 1 King 21:19). It is shocking and moving to the heart and emotions. Most definitely difficult to understand and emotionally gripping. It does not say anywhere however that Moses or any other Jewish leaders were a part of such ugliness and Deut. 22:25-27 speaks against it with heavy judgment.</p>
<p>The Bible however is never meant to be read as a dictated or word for word advocacy from God. It is a record of history and what cultures and contexts of that time did. God’s truth relates to us through it and even today sadly we can find similarities to current events which have happened in South Africa, the Middle East, and even the violence in North America. Your comment to the abolishment of slavery itself does not speak to the fact that the slave trade and work of human trafficking is higher today then it ever was before the legal abolishment of such activities.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery</a></p>
<p>God still calls us to seek his justice, love, and Kingdom (Gen. 4:9-10; Luke 11:42; Luke 12:31). It is a Kingdom of the heart and mind and not current or historical evidences and not ideological and religious conceptualizations. It is a Kingdom of Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, and Kindness for all without judgment, prejudgment, or the expectation of complete agreement and conformity (Gal. 5:22-23). I ask, who are we that we might take on divinity to ourselves and speak over all others in judgment whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, or otherwise? No, let us let God be judge.</p>
<p>The verse you bring up where Jesus speaks of the Gentiles as dogs is most interesting when you consider the full context of the situation (Matt. 7:24-30). Who else may have been present? Why did he use this insult? In truth, Jesus was subverting the insult to those who used it most &#8211; those who where the religious figures themselves and most likely the ones who were watching him (vs. 24). Jesus is in radical reformation favorable to the Gentiles (Matt. 6:32; Matt. 12:18 ) and even in this context heals or sets free the woman’s daughter from the demon; something which would have infuriated the Jewish religious leaders themselves.</p>
<p>I could go on Kate but I am more concerned about the voice in which you commented on this post. You seem very hurt by the religious institutions which may exist in our world and perhaps rightfully so. I do not dismiss the wrong doings in history of both Christian institutions and other religious institutions. They are all not without fault. Perhaps there is also something more personal behind your pain too I do not know.</p>
<p>What I would like to offer you is some comfort in that God still knows you and loves you Kate (Isa. 49:15; John 15:9). I wish I had better opportunity to reach out to you and be a friend despite our differences and perhaps different beliefs. I wish I had the space and opportunity to speak further with regards to the many challenges you brought forth in your comment. I hope this offers you some solace as you will be in my wife’s and my thoughts and prayers over the coming days. You must be in search of something Kate or you would not have come across this post. I pray you find what it is you are looking for and I pray you find the truth and a sense of peace in your heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/06/13/the-top-ten-biblical-people-i-would-like-to-meet/#comment-972</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justwondering.wordpress.com/?p=387#comment-972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have heard so many fools say that they would love to be able to sit down one on one with Moses, David, Solomon, Paul, Jesus etc. I wish they could. They would find themselves trying to carry on a conversation with a total barbaric ignoramus who they have NOTHING in common with and would be ashamed to be seen with. If they like talking with some nitwit who thinks god tells them to steal, kill and rape then Moses and Joshua are the men. I wonder how they would really like to hear straight from them the details of all the slaughters and rape he ordered his men to do?  Any decent human would be very uncomfortable hearing such things even if it was Moses. He would also try to kill them since they are not of the chosen! Yeah, they need to spend a whole day with Moses.

 

If they want to try to reason with men who think the sun revolves around the FLAT earth that is held up on four pillars then they might see things a little clearer. The NT characters could show them how to heal by casting out demons! None of those people would even recognize their god or religion because each generation has chipped away at it and molded it to suit changing societies. They would be shocked by how we dress, talk and live. They would judge all of us as hell-bound because we don’t kill adulterers, fornicators, gays or children who disrespect parents. We allow women to teach in church, schools and even hold jobs over men. Re-marriage is allowed and women are no longer treated like farm animals. Domestic abuse and child abuse are against the law and the oldies wouldn’t like to hear that. We finally came to our senses and realized slavery is wrong, which the bible never condemned, not even Jesus who was also a huge racist. Polygamy is deemed against the law but mormons are sick perverts and do it anyway. The oldies certainly wouldn’t like that law because they were truly twisted warped men. 

 

The Christians love to spout that the word of god never changes and he is always the same. Bullshit. He doesn’t have to change, they do it for him. Bibles have been edited and new versions come out yearly. There are hundreds of versions and as time goes by they become more and more liberal to suit the ‘modern’ Christian who refuses to live the way the bible says they are to live. What a bunch of blind damn hypocrites. If they really trusted the bible, they would never go to a secular doctor and they wouldn’t own anything. They would sell all they have and give it to the poor. The ones I know are as greedy and self-centered as anyone else I know who professes nothing. They cram money away in the bank and work their asses off trying to keep up with their neighbors. 

 

Yep, meeting the bible characters might be a rude awakening for religious morons. I would love to hear one of them tell Joshua that he never made the sun stand still because it wasn’t moving in the first place. I would love for one of them to tell Jesus and his disciples that demons are not what makes people sick. Do you think they could get the point across about germs and bacteria to those who believe ‘the devil did it’!  Also, we need to let Jesus know it is not allowed these days to call gentiles dogs. All those ancient people would have a hissy fit in any church service they ventured to go into and the people would think they were escapees from the local group home. Bringing together the ‘saints’ of old and the modern ‘believers’ would never result in any sensible meeting of the minds. It would be hysterically funny to watch though. Isn’t is sad that we have come so far in science and knowledge yet millions still claim to believe that idiotic book is the word of a super intelligent creator of worlds??? We live among idiots. Any religion that began by killing all others who refused it, was not good back then and is not good now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have heard so many fools say that they would love to be able to sit down one on one with Moses, David, Solomon, Paul, Jesus etc. I wish they could. They would find themselves trying to carry on a conversation with a total barbaric ignoramus who they have NOTHING in common with and would be ashamed to be seen with. If they like talking with some nitwit who thinks god tells them to steal, kill and rape then Moses and Joshua are the men. I wonder how they would really like to hear straight from them the details of all the slaughters and rape he ordered his men to do?  Any decent human would be very uncomfortable hearing such things even if it was Moses. He would also try to kill them since they are not of the chosen! Yeah, they need to spend a whole day with Moses.</p>
<p>If they want to try to reason with men who think the sun revolves around the FLAT earth that is held up on four pillars then they might see things a little clearer. The NT characters could show them how to heal by casting out demons! None of those people would even recognize their god or religion because each generation has chipped away at it and molded it to suit changing societies. They would be shocked by how we dress, talk and live. They would judge all of us as hell-bound because we don’t kill adulterers, fornicators, gays or children who disrespect parents. We allow women to teach in church, schools and even hold jobs over men. Re-marriage is allowed and women are no longer treated like farm animals. Domestic abuse and child abuse are against the law and the oldies wouldn’t like to hear that. We finally came to our senses and realized slavery is wrong, which the bible never condemned, not even Jesus who was also a huge racist. Polygamy is deemed against the law but mormons are sick perverts and do it anyway. The oldies certainly wouldn’t like that law because they were truly twisted warped men. </p>
<p>The Christians love to spout that the word of god never changes and he is always the same. Bullshit. He doesn’t have to change, they do it for him. Bibles have been edited and new versions come out yearly. There are hundreds of versions and as time goes by they become more and more liberal to suit the ‘modern’ Christian who refuses to live the way the bible says they are to live. What a bunch of blind damn hypocrites. If they really trusted the bible, they would never go to a secular doctor and they wouldn’t own anything. They would sell all they have and give it to the poor. The ones I know are as greedy and self-centered as anyone else I know who professes nothing. They cram money away in the bank and work their asses off trying to keep up with their neighbors. </p>
<p>Yep, meeting the bible characters might be a rude awakening for religious morons. I would love to hear one of them tell Joshua that he never made the sun stand still because it wasn’t moving in the first place. I would love for one of them to tell Jesus and his disciples that demons are not what makes people sick. Do you think they could get the point across about germs and bacteria to those who believe ‘the devil did it’!  Also, we need to let Jesus know it is not allowed these days to call gentiles dogs. All those ancient people would have a hissy fit in any church service they ventured to go into and the people would think they were escapees from the local group home. Bringing together the ‘saints’ of old and the modern ‘believers’ would never result in any sensible meeting of the minds. It would be hysterically funny to watch though. Isn’t is sad that we have come so far in science and knowledge yet millions still claim to believe that idiotic book is the word of a super intelligent creator of worlds??? We live among idiots. Any religion that began by killing all others who refused it, was not good back then and is not good now.</p>
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