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	<title>Comments on: Discussing Needs and Human Social Fabrics</title>
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	<description>"Concepts create idols, only wonder grasps anything." - Gregory of Nyssa</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 03:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-648</guid>
		<description>Hey Erik,

Just wanted to let you know that I haven&#039;t forgotten to reply, just REALLY busy right now.  I&#039;m looking forward to setting aside some time really soon.  (Hopefully within the next couple days).  Thanks for your patience and I hope all is well with you and Bonnie.

-Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Erik,</p>
<p>Just wanted to let you know that I haven&#8217;t forgotten to reply, just REALLY busy right now.  I&#8217;m looking forward to setting aside some time really soon.  (Hopefully within the next couple days).  Thanks for your patience and I hope all is well with you and Bonnie.</p>
<p>-Chris</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-631</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-631</guid>
		<description>Some more thoughts on truth...

It is a cold day here in the Calgary area Chris, with blowing winds and expected snow for the next couple days. It is going to go down to - 25*C by tomorrow! I will probably post some pictures in the next couple days.

Anyways, I have been giving some thought to this idea of truth this morning and rereading much of our conversation. One thing seems to stand out to me and that is that truth seems to be very close to the idea of empowerment also.

In an attempt to define it I might say that truth/empowerment is an &quot;acknowledgement to everything within a given moment which gives direction and ability to respond in a relational manner to a perceived need.&quot; The relational manner not necessarily being between two people but perhaps the individual and their central spiritual identity/narrative.

The perceived need though must find greater definition. Is it purely something which can only be determined by trial and error? (As you pointed out a &quot;gut instinct&quot;.) For me it seems there has to be more too it then that. Yes, Jesus is a noun and as the embodiment of truth/empowerment itself I can&#039;t dismiss my need or desire for HIS absolute. That being said, I also acknowledge the paradox that if HE is truth... I am not and cannot fully comprehend its entirety. What I perceive does not necessarily encompass the entire need. To say it does would become an ideology and ultimately an idolatry of the self (selfishness/selflessness). How then do I take the right steps to comprehending and acting in correct &quot;strategy&quot; as the character of truth/empowerment (Jesus) without responding to an ideological preconceived need? (God! A lot of this is just floating in my own head so please don&#039;t ask me for an example right now! Ha ha!)Perhaps I am over thinking this myself.

***

The need for God or spiritual identity...

It seems to me that a large part of this need comes from an acknowledgment to the need for a Savior. As I tried to put into words earlier, there seems to be a paradoxical relationship between us (humanity) and Jesus (God). The need being one not of just a God who exists but a character or identity which gives a greater definition to that which is corrective truth for all and in all. Just some random thoughts.

***

Chris, I also spent some more time on The Grid this morning. I have come to really appreciate much of the expressions coming out of your soulful projections. They really are quit beautiful and deeply stirring for myself. I thought I might share some of my own connections.

Your picture of &#039;Voluntary Solitude&#039; I connected with my own fear of eternal judgment. I must admit that one of my greatest fears in self judgment is to face eternity in the blackness of being totally alone. Not exactly a positive projection I know but perhaps a common connection. What was your meaning behind the picture?

I also really liked the &#039;Rivers&#039; picture along with the music. I really must protest your use of the David Hasselhoff picture however. Why did you choose this picture?

All said, these are great expressions and I have come to see the connections you bridge them with in the parts of your life that have deep and significant meaning to you. I can only question what picture you might connect our conversation to one day. I await your response!

With Blessings,

Erik</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some more thoughts on truth&#8230;</p>
<p>It is a cold day here in the Calgary area Chris, with blowing winds and expected snow for the next couple days. It is going to go down to &#8211; 25*C by tomorrow! I will probably post some pictures in the next couple days.</p>
<p>Anyways, I have been giving some thought to this idea of truth this morning and rereading much of our conversation. One thing seems to stand out to me and that is that truth seems to be very close to the idea of empowerment also.</p>
<p>In an attempt to define it I might say that truth/empowerment is an &#8220;acknowledgement to everything within a given moment which gives direction and ability to respond in a relational manner to a perceived need.&#8221; The relational manner not necessarily being between two people but perhaps the individual and their central spiritual identity/narrative.</p>
<p>The perceived need though must find greater definition. Is it purely something which can only be determined by trial and error? (As you pointed out a &#8220;gut instinct&#8221;.) For me it seems there has to be more too it then that. Yes, Jesus is a noun and as the embodiment of truth/empowerment itself I can&#8217;t dismiss my need or desire for HIS absolute. That being said, I also acknowledge the paradox that if HE is truth&#8230; I am not and cannot fully comprehend its entirety. What I perceive does not necessarily encompass the entire need. To say it does would become an ideology and ultimately an idolatry of the self (selfishness/selflessness). How then do I take the right steps to comprehending and acting in correct &#8220;strategy&#8221; as the character of truth/empowerment (Jesus) without responding to an ideological preconceived need? (God! A lot of this is just floating in my own head so please don&#8217;t ask me for an example right now! Ha ha!)Perhaps I am over thinking this myself.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>The need for God or spiritual identity&#8230;</p>
<p>It seems to me that a large part of this need comes from an acknowledgment to the need for a Savior. As I tried to put into words earlier, there seems to be a paradoxical relationship between us (humanity) and Jesus (God). The need being one not of just a God who exists but a character or identity which gives a greater definition to that which is corrective truth for all and in all. Just some random thoughts.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>Chris, I also spent some more time on The Grid this morning. I have come to really appreciate much of the expressions coming out of your soulful projections. They really are quit beautiful and deeply stirring for myself. I thought I might share some of my own connections.</p>
<p>Your picture of &#8216;Voluntary Solitude&#8217; I connected with my own fear of eternal judgment. I must admit that one of my greatest fears in self judgment is to face eternity in the blackness of being totally alone. Not exactly a positive projection I know but perhaps a common connection. What was your meaning behind the picture?</p>
<p>I also really liked the &#8216;Rivers&#8217; picture along with the music. I really must protest your use of the David Hasselhoff picture however. Why did you choose this picture?</p>
<p>All said, these are great expressions and I have come to see the connections you bridge them with in the parts of your life that have deep and significant meaning to you. I can only question what picture you might connect our conversation to one day. I await your response!</p>
<p>With Blessings,</p>
<p>Erik</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-625</guid>
		<description>Thanks Chris for sharing your story! I am very much a face to face person myself and having a high value to authentic openness, I find it easier when I can &quot;know&quot; the person to who I am conversing with. This way it seems a little more open to personal expressions.

I too have been flooded with the pressure of time as I have been trying to write a business plan for Expressions. That said, I have been really drawn into our conversation regarding a needs consciousness community and the ideas we have been expressing. This is GREAT STUFF!

***

I have been thinking a lot about the first point within a needs framework particularly with regards to my own needs and what form they take. My statement with regards to Jesus was perhaps rash in being stated and was meant to be more metaphorical in that I tend to see his &quot;identity&quot; within most of my relationships. Perhaps it is an idealistic over expectation on my own part but I tend to think that Jesus is present in all places and all people. We just need to seek it out, expect it, and bring awareness to him.

Yes... right... my own needs. Dismissing any &quot;categorizing&quot; of descriptions, I find myself very much identifying with much of the content described. In previous thought I might have considered the process being one of gathering the &quot;community&quot; first and then addressing the needs. Perhaps in the reality of things it is better to reverse the paradigm so that by first addressing the need individually so that the gathering of &quot;community&quot; forms more naturally. I must admit easier said then done... at least for myself that is.

Here is the problem as I have encountered it. I have a high need for the pursuit of equity, particularly through the serving of the &quot;poor&quot; at the Mustard Seed. Due to what seems like an over appreciation to independence and the use of &quot;That&#039;s not my gift!&quot; it is harder to create a communal gathering of like minded people within the local surrounding (i.e. my &quot;church&quot;). It is much easier to throw money and used property to these &quot;ministries&quot; then it is to actually get physically involved.

The solution as I have come to hold hope. Use Expressions as a connective environment to build relationships with those in the wider community (i.e. not in the &quot;church&quot;) who might form this communal outreach and search for equitable principles and embodiment.

Admittedly, my learning curve and frequent checking and rechecking is to address the need first and hold hope for the gathering to follow. To put it bluntly, &quot;I am tired of being alone!&quot;

***

With regards to truth and its exploration: It is difficult for me to illustrate an exact encounter where I might see this at play within my own framework; however I will try.

Over the past few months I have been in a dialogue with the pastor of Bonnie&#039;s and my church (McKenzie Towne Church) with regards to our hopes and dreams for the Expressions Community. I have been very open with my increasing discomforts of the lack of external vision the traditional &quot;model&quot; approach to the issue of church seems to have (not at all connecting it with MTC&#039;s vision).

That said, I have tried to articulate our hopes for the Expressions community to be one of external autonomy from the &quot;(C)hurch&quot; and yet embodying and extending the expression of the Christian faith to all who are a part of it (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or otherwise). He has found it difficult to identify it as such. Paraphrased response: &quot;Is it not then just another group which is a part of McKenzie Towne Church?&quot; Even within that he already expressed discomfort with the level of inclusiveness to which I had expressed.

I personally follow Jesus as my Lord and Savior. However as I articulated earlier it is for this very reason that I believe he is present within the lives of all people regardless of race, religion, or ritual practice. The calling is to bring awareness to his presence within each &quot;moment&quot; so that the things of unimportance might be discarded. Perhaps I am in error.

Maybe I am not illustrating this correctly but let me know if this is connecting with your thoughts.

***

The periscope as Jesus (I will be brief): I remember one time reading a Philip Yancey book called &#039;The Jesus I Never Knew&#039; and he gave an illustration to Jesus being like a window to which we could look through and see God. It has always stuck with me.

Likewise, Jesus is a periscope to which we might see God, truth, light, and life in all situations and people. In seeing it/him we can perhaps act more within the way we should to each moment, place, and person. I might even extend this (periscope) vision to including not just the human community but that of the environment and others. Interesting thought... as a periscope you can never see the entire 360* in any one moment.

***

O.K. I seem to be writing to much and if I am boring you I apologize. About me...

For a large part of my youth I grew up an only child in a single parent family (my mother) until I was about eight with little contact with my father. We were quit &quot;poor&quot; to some extent and my mother had many health issues. Following that my father and I are developing a closer relationship these days. Regardless, life is good to me as is God!

I have seen a good amount of Canada and the Upper States through traveling and enjoyed much of the outdoors prior to my accident. I have always had a passion for sports particularly football and the Martial Arts as you may have noticed my side bar (I trained in Kung Fu for ten years and have studied Aikido for the last two).

I grew up in a church framework however, I wouldn&#039;t say I was a follower of Jesus until after I was in my wheelchair. Much of my walk in faith with regards to its starting point is described here if you would like to check it out: http://iamjustwondering.net/about/.

I must admit to being a bit of a &quot;Maverick&quot; in that I tend to do things alone a lot of the time however, I don&#039;t necessarily like too. I enjoy reading non-fiction books, watching movies, and writing. I mostly enjoy hanging out with friends at the local Starbucks however Bonnie thinks I spend too much time there. Perhaps, that is the greater need for my own coffee shop!

Anyways, I hope to perhaps look deeper into some of the other points you brought up in the original post in the next little bit. I look forward to your next response!

With God&#039;s Blessings,

Erik</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Chris for sharing your story! I am very much a face to face person myself and having a high value to authentic openness, I find it easier when I can &#8220;know&#8221; the person to who I am conversing with. This way it seems a little more open to personal expressions.</p>
<p>I too have been flooded with the pressure of time as I have been trying to write a business plan for Expressions. That said, I have been really drawn into our conversation regarding a needs consciousness community and the ideas we have been expressing. This is GREAT STUFF!</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>I have been thinking a lot about the first point within a needs framework particularly with regards to my own needs and what form they take. My statement with regards to Jesus was perhaps rash in being stated and was meant to be more metaphorical in that I tend to see his &#8220;identity&#8221; within most of my relationships. Perhaps it is an idealistic over expectation on my own part but I tend to think that Jesus is present in all places and all people. We just need to seek it out, expect it, and bring awareness to him.</p>
<p>Yes&#8230; right&#8230; my own needs. Dismissing any &#8220;categorizing&#8221; of descriptions, I find myself very much identifying with much of the content described. In previous thought I might have considered the process being one of gathering the &#8220;community&#8221; first and then addressing the needs. Perhaps in the reality of things it is better to reverse the paradigm so that by first addressing the need individually so that the gathering of &#8220;community&#8221; forms more naturally. I must admit easier said then done&#8230; at least for myself that is.</p>
<p>Here is the problem as I have encountered it. I have a high need for the pursuit of equity, particularly through the serving of the &#8220;poor&#8221; at the Mustard Seed. Due to what seems like an over appreciation to independence and the use of &#8220;That&#8217;s not my gift!&#8221; it is harder to create a communal gathering of like minded people within the local surrounding (i.e. my &#8220;church&#8221;). It is much easier to throw money and used property to these &#8220;ministries&#8221; then it is to actually get physically involved.</p>
<p>The solution as I have come to hold hope. Use Expressions as a connective environment to build relationships with those in the wider community (i.e. not in the &#8220;church&#8221;) who might form this communal outreach and search for equitable principles and embodiment.</p>
<p>Admittedly, my learning curve and frequent checking and rechecking is to address the need first and hold hope for the gathering to follow. To put it bluntly, &#8220;I am tired of being alone!&#8221;</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>With regards to truth and its exploration: It is difficult for me to illustrate an exact encounter where I might see this at play within my own framework; however I will try.</p>
<p>Over the past few months I have been in a dialogue with the pastor of Bonnie&#8217;s and my church (McKenzie Towne Church) with regards to our hopes and dreams for the Expressions Community. I have been very open with my increasing discomforts of the lack of external vision the traditional &#8220;model&#8221; approach to the issue of church seems to have (not at all connecting it with MTC&#8217;s vision).</p>
<p>That said, I have tried to articulate our hopes for the Expressions community to be one of external autonomy from the &#8220;(C)hurch&#8221; and yet embodying and extending the expression of the Christian faith to all who are a part of it (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or otherwise). He has found it difficult to identify it as such. Paraphrased response: &#8220;Is it not then just another group which is a part of McKenzie Towne Church?&#8221; Even within that he already expressed discomfort with the level of inclusiveness to which I had expressed.</p>
<p>I personally follow Jesus as my Lord and Savior. However as I articulated earlier it is for this very reason that I believe he is present within the lives of all people regardless of race, religion, or ritual practice. The calling is to bring awareness to his presence within each &#8220;moment&#8221; so that the things of unimportance might be discarded. Perhaps I am in error.</p>
<p>Maybe I am not illustrating this correctly but let me know if this is connecting with your thoughts.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>The periscope as Jesus (I will be brief): I remember one time reading a Philip Yancey book called &#8216;The Jesus I Never Knew&#8217; and he gave an illustration to Jesus being like a window to which we could look through and see God. It has always stuck with me.</p>
<p>Likewise, Jesus is a periscope to which we might see God, truth, light, and life in all situations and people. In seeing it/him we can perhaps act more within the way we should to each moment, place, and person. I might even extend this (periscope) vision to including not just the human community but that of the environment and others. Interesting thought&#8230; as a periscope you can never see the entire 360* in any one moment.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>O.K. I seem to be writing to much and if I am boring you I apologize. About me&#8230;</p>
<p>For a large part of my youth I grew up an only child in a single parent family (my mother) until I was about eight with little contact with my father. We were quit &#8220;poor&#8221; to some extent and my mother had many health issues. Following that my father and I are developing a closer relationship these days. Regardless, life is good to me as is God!</p>
<p>I have seen a good amount of Canada and the Upper States through traveling and enjoyed much of the outdoors prior to my accident. I have always had a passion for sports particularly football and the Martial Arts as you may have noticed my side bar (I trained in Kung Fu for ten years and have studied Aikido for the last two).</p>
<p>I grew up in a church framework however, I wouldn&#8217;t say I was a follower of Jesus until after I was in my wheelchair. Much of my walk in faith with regards to its starting point is described here if you would like to check it out: <a href="http://iamjustwondering.net/about/" rel="nofollow">http://iamjustwondering.net/about/</a>.</p>
<p>I must admit to being a bit of a &#8220;Maverick&#8221; in that I tend to do things alone a lot of the time however, I don&#8217;t necessarily like too. I enjoy reading non-fiction books, watching movies, and writing. I mostly enjoy hanging out with friends at the local Starbucks however Bonnie thinks I spend too much time there. Perhaps, that is the greater need for my own coffee shop!</p>
<p>Anyways, I hope to perhaps look deeper into some of the other points you brought up in the original post in the next little bit. I look forward to your next response!</p>
<p>With God&#8217;s Blessings,</p>
<p>Erik</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-622</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 04:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-622</guid>
		<description>Great thoughts Erik.  I&#039;ve been hit with a dose of extra-busyness with school starting up again and life in general getting filled quickly with more social plans than there is room for in my schedule.  I am however looking forward to carving out time every couple days to continue this dialogue with you.  (Just wanted you to know why I may be delayed in responding)  Also- because of my own time limitations, I&#039;m going to limit my responses to the few key points that jump out most boldly in my mind.  Feel free to continue dogging for any of your thoughts that I&#039;m not addressing in this post, and I&#039;ll know to respond to them next time.

***

A quick word regarding &quot;truth&quot;- you stated: &quot;Truth and the needs which it extends is an identity which lies both internally and externally from human nature and as such may contain more definement then we ourselves can comprehend.&quot;  

Well put.  I would agree with you on that.  I am sensing however, that we may have miscommunicated on this issue of truth, because I was not intending to speak of truth being attainable or definable, but more so, what I was attempting to point out was this:  Any time the issue of truth is raised (between two people in conflict for example) the &quot;please&quot; from each person is overlooked in the pursuit of truth, which as a thing, is often ineffectual to the underlying purposes of both people.

By way of example, would you be willing to share a situation from your life where you recently had a conflict with another person where a particular truth was in debate?  (Then we could dialogue about that situation and explore the topic of truth in that context.)

***

In regards to the submarine metaphor- that&#039;s an interesting metaphor!  I like the lesson in there to look beyond ourselves as we navigate through life.  I would say that if you see a danger of your needs, and the needs of others not being met by having the periscope down, then that much more reason to raise the periscope and consider those needs outside the submarine that are now in view.  In my article I mentioned the importance of considering the needs of others as well as ourselves, so yes, I agree that the periscope is a good thing to have up at all times.

You mentioned the idea of Jesus being our periscope in this metaphor.  You&#039;ve lost me on that one.  Could you elaborate on exactly how he is a periscope?  I would enjoy any examples if you could think of them.

You also mention that Jesus meets all your needs.  I admit that that sounds like a really nice thing to say, but I once again am not sure if I follow.  If you look at all the needs that I inventoried in the above article, can you honestly say that all your needs are currently met, or potentially met, entirely through Jesus?  If so, I&#039;d be interested in hearing more about how that works.

In response to your question: &quot;Is [Jesus] a strategy? Perhaps… but in truth I hope not.&quot;  Here&#039;s my line of thinking on that-  Jesus is a noun, not a verb.  Jesus is a resource for us in all sorts of ways, but in and of himself, he is not a strategy.  Accepting his gift of eternal life through faith is a strategy.  Looking to scripture for Jesus&#039; wisdom is a strategy.  Turning to Christ for strength in a moment of prayer is a strategy.  And, sure, I would say that following a living example through personal connection is a strategy.  We could think of many more ways that Jesus is a resource for us in all kinds of strategies we might come up with.

One of the powers of needs-consciousness is that it provides common ground for two people who might otherwise disagree on the strategy-level.  Most people can all agree on the list of needs that I have inventoried above.  (Except the need for a relationship with God, which is a need that I personally believe to exist, but an atheist would not be able to relate with until they explored their yearnings and were able to consider such a need to exist for them)  When I am interacting with someone who is not a Christian, I would not impose that need onto them if that is not something that they are ready to accept.  I would instead play the role of a mid-wife and explore with them what is tugging at their heart until they are able to recognize relationship with God as a need.  Once again, since I believe it is there, I don&#039;t impose it on people, but draw it out from them and allow that realization to be awoken from within them.

***

You asked me to share a bit of my own story.  Once again, I&#039;m honored that you would be interested.

I grew up spending the weekdays with my mother and the weekends with my father.  Both my parents were spiritual seekers to varying degrees and they encouraged me to investigate all the various religions and philosophies out there- except Christianity and Satanism.  Because according to them, those were the only two religions that were based on hatred.

I was a very spiritual kid and I desired a connection with God so much that I set aside time to pray every day and would also meditate for at least a few hours every week.  When I was 12, I had a near-death experience where I encountered God.  After that encounter, I had the ability to hear God&#039;s voice on a constant basis (which is something that I had never had before, as much as I wished for it).  He began revealing himself to me as we would go for long walks and talk with one another.  One day, he told me to go to my friend Justin&#039;s house, and that there would be someone there who I could talk to about Jesus.  (I didn&#039;t know that Jesus was a religious figure, or claimed to be God, or anything, since I had been so sheltered by my parents)  So, I was curious who Jesus was and why God was wanting me to know about him, so I got to my friend Justin&#039;s house and it turned out that his two cousin&#039;s were visiting for the day from out of state.  The first thing that they said to me when I walked in was &quot;Chris, do you know Jesus?&quot;  I was astonished!  I said &quot;no, but can you tell me about him?&quot;  We sat down, and I explained my  story to them and they said that God had also told them that a young boy would be dropping by in search of knowledge about Jesus.

As they told me about Jesus and the gospel, I couldn&#039;t help but jump in, finishing their sentences.  The things that God had told me during our conversations were the same things that they were then telling me.  We had a great time connecting and sharing and that day I prayed, along with them, to Jesus, thanking him for his sacrifice for my life and asking him to be my Lord and Savior.

There&#039;s a lot more to my story.  A lot happened in my life over the following years!

Fast forwarding to the summer after I graduated high school, I had been working in my city as a missionary and I planted a church along with some of my friends.  It was originally planned to be a missional community, but because we had over 300 Christians from other churches come to our first gathering, wanting to be a part of it, the pressure from everyone to make it a traditional church was too great.  We succumbed to the pressure and my friend Ron reluctantly assumed the role of &quot;head pastor&quot; and we dished out 100 grand on a down-payment for an old vacant Lutheran building.  Our original purposes were lost and we quickly got weighted down with services to plan, bills to pay, and programs to implement- and we became completely ingrown.  No missionary work at all.  However, I continued doing my missionary work along with some other missionaries that had opted out of the church shenanigans in favor of a small little 10-member missional community.  I continued to help out at the church for a few years, until I realized that I was spreading myself too thin, at which point I resigned from my role there.

I have continued doing indigenous missionary work since then, and about 6 years ago, the missional community that I was a part of sent me to Bellingham to plant a new missional community here.  It has been more difficult than I had thought it would be.

When I first moved to Bellingham, I naturally gravitated toward the artist and activists in town.  That was only natural, since I was starting to pop up every friday night at the art walk, and I started taking art classes, and I got involved with a peace activism group in town, and started hosting workshops at my house, pretty soon I was being invited to potlucks, where I would meet more and more people, who would invite me to other potlucks...  There is a lot of interconnection with the artists/activists in town, and before I knew it I was an integral member of the tribe!

More recently, the tribe has shifted quite a bit.  Other types of people want to be a part of our community, and now it is just a big variety of people who are interconnected with the rest of us.  Funny enough, I am the only Christian, in a group that is about 300 people!

I have developed a reputation in town as &quot;the guy you go to when you need counseling, mediation, support, or just need to talk.&quot;  I get calls from all sorts of people, wanting a chance to meet with me.  I have one regular client, who I meet with on a consistent weekly basis, for counseling, and the rest of my week is usually filled with more sporadic appointments.

So, that&#039;s the long and short of it.  I hope you&#039;re blessed by my story.  Now, I&#039;m interested in knowing more about your story.  I watched that YouTube video that you have, which shows photos of you growing up, leading up to the car crash, and then your marriage to Bonnie.  I would be very interested to know more.

I look forward to your response.

Blessings,
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thoughts Erik.  I&#8217;ve been hit with a dose of extra-busyness with school starting up again and life in general getting filled quickly with more social plans than there is room for in my schedule.  I am however looking forward to carving out time every couple days to continue this dialogue with you.  (Just wanted you to know why I may be delayed in responding)  Also- because of my own time limitations, I&#8217;m going to limit my responses to the few key points that jump out most boldly in my mind.  Feel free to continue dogging for any of your thoughts that I&#8217;m not addressing in this post, and I&#8217;ll know to respond to them next time.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>A quick word regarding &#8220;truth&#8221;- you stated: &#8220;Truth and the needs which it extends is an identity which lies both internally and externally from human nature and as such may contain more definement then we ourselves can comprehend.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Well put.  I would agree with you on that.  I am sensing however, that we may have miscommunicated on this issue of truth, because I was not intending to speak of truth being attainable or definable, but more so, what I was attempting to point out was this:  Any time the issue of truth is raised (between two people in conflict for example) the &#8220;please&#8221; from each person is overlooked in the pursuit of truth, which as a thing, is often ineffectual to the underlying purposes of both people.</p>
<p>By way of example, would you be willing to share a situation from your life where you recently had a conflict with another person where a particular truth was in debate?  (Then we could dialogue about that situation and explore the topic of truth in that context.)</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>In regards to the submarine metaphor- that&#8217;s an interesting metaphor!  I like the lesson in there to look beyond ourselves as we navigate through life.  I would say that if you see a danger of your needs, and the needs of others not being met by having the periscope down, then that much more reason to raise the periscope and consider those needs outside the submarine that are now in view.  In my article I mentioned the importance of considering the needs of others as well as ourselves, so yes, I agree that the periscope is a good thing to have up at all times.</p>
<p>You mentioned the idea of Jesus being our periscope in this metaphor.  You&#8217;ve lost me on that one.  Could you elaborate on exactly how he is a periscope?  I would enjoy any examples if you could think of them.</p>
<p>You also mention that Jesus meets all your needs.  I admit that that sounds like a really nice thing to say, but I once again am not sure if I follow.  If you look at all the needs that I inventoried in the above article, can you honestly say that all your needs are currently met, or potentially met, entirely through Jesus?  If so, I&#8217;d be interested in hearing more about how that works.</p>
<p>In response to your question: &#8220;Is [Jesus] a strategy? Perhaps… but in truth I hope not.&#8221;  Here&#8217;s my line of thinking on that-  Jesus is a noun, not a verb.  Jesus is a resource for us in all sorts of ways, but in and of himself, he is not a strategy.  Accepting his gift of eternal life through faith is a strategy.  Looking to scripture for Jesus&#8217; wisdom is a strategy.  Turning to Christ for strength in a moment of prayer is a strategy.  And, sure, I would say that following a living example through personal connection is a strategy.  We could think of many more ways that Jesus is a resource for us in all kinds of strategies we might come up with.</p>
<p>One of the powers of needs-consciousness is that it provides common ground for two people who might otherwise disagree on the strategy-level.  Most people can all agree on the list of needs that I have inventoried above.  (Except the need for a relationship with God, which is a need that I personally believe to exist, but an atheist would not be able to relate with until they explored their yearnings and were able to consider such a need to exist for them)  When I am interacting with someone who is not a Christian, I would not impose that need onto them if that is not something that they are ready to accept.  I would instead play the role of a mid-wife and explore with them what is tugging at their heart until they are able to recognize relationship with God as a need.  Once again, since I believe it is there, I don&#8217;t impose it on people, but draw it out from them and allow that realization to be awoken from within them.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>You asked me to share a bit of my own story.  Once again, I&#8217;m honored that you would be interested.</p>
<p>I grew up spending the weekdays with my mother and the weekends with my father.  Both my parents were spiritual seekers to varying degrees and they encouraged me to investigate all the various religions and philosophies out there- except Christianity and Satanism.  Because according to them, those were the only two religions that were based on hatred.</p>
<p>I was a very spiritual kid and I desired a connection with God so much that I set aside time to pray every day and would also meditate for at least a few hours every week.  When I was 12, I had a near-death experience where I encountered God.  After that encounter, I had the ability to hear God&#8217;s voice on a constant basis (which is something that I had never had before, as much as I wished for it).  He began revealing himself to me as we would go for long walks and talk with one another.  One day, he told me to go to my friend Justin&#8217;s house, and that there would be someone there who I could talk to about Jesus.  (I didn&#8217;t know that Jesus was a religious figure, or claimed to be God, or anything, since I had been so sheltered by my parents)  So, I was curious who Jesus was and why God was wanting me to know about him, so I got to my friend Justin&#8217;s house and it turned out that his two cousin&#8217;s were visiting for the day from out of state.  The first thing that they said to me when I walked in was &#8220;Chris, do you know Jesus?&#8221;  I was astonished!  I said &#8220;no, but can you tell me about him?&#8221;  We sat down, and I explained my  story to them and they said that God had also told them that a young boy would be dropping by in search of knowledge about Jesus.</p>
<p>As they told me about Jesus and the gospel, I couldn&#8217;t help but jump in, finishing their sentences.  The things that God had told me during our conversations were the same things that they were then telling me.  We had a great time connecting and sharing and that day I prayed, along with them, to Jesus, thanking him for his sacrifice for my life and asking him to be my Lord and Savior.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot more to my story.  A lot happened in my life over the following years!</p>
<p>Fast forwarding to the summer after I graduated high school, I had been working in my city as a missionary and I planted a church along with some of my friends.  It was originally planned to be a missional community, but because we had over 300 Christians from other churches come to our first gathering, wanting to be a part of it, the pressure from everyone to make it a traditional church was too great.  We succumbed to the pressure and my friend Ron reluctantly assumed the role of &#8220;head pastor&#8221; and we dished out 100 grand on a down-payment for an old vacant Lutheran building.  Our original purposes were lost and we quickly got weighted down with services to plan, bills to pay, and programs to implement- and we became completely ingrown.  No missionary work at all.  However, I continued doing my missionary work along with some other missionaries that had opted out of the church shenanigans in favor of a small little 10-member missional community.  I continued to help out at the church for a few years, until I realized that I was spreading myself too thin, at which point I resigned from my role there.</p>
<p>I have continued doing indigenous missionary work since then, and about 6 years ago, the missional community that I was a part of sent me to Bellingham to plant a new missional community here.  It has been more difficult than I had thought it would be.</p>
<p>When I first moved to Bellingham, I naturally gravitated toward the artist and activists in town.  That was only natural, since I was starting to pop up every friday night at the art walk, and I started taking art classes, and I got involved with a peace activism group in town, and started hosting workshops at my house, pretty soon I was being invited to potlucks, where I would meet more and more people, who would invite me to other potlucks&#8230;  There is a lot of interconnection with the artists/activists in town, and before I knew it I was an integral member of the tribe!</p>
<p>More recently, the tribe has shifted quite a bit.  Other types of people want to be a part of our community, and now it is just a big variety of people who are interconnected with the rest of us.  Funny enough, I am the only Christian, in a group that is about 300 people!</p>
<p>I have developed a reputation in town as &#8220;the guy you go to when you need counseling, mediation, support, or just need to talk.&#8221;  I get calls from all sorts of people, wanting a chance to meet with me.  I have one regular client, who I meet with on a consistent weekly basis, for counseling, and the rest of my week is usually filled with more sporadic appointments.</p>
<p>So, that&#8217;s the long and short of it.  I hope you&#8217;re blessed by my story.  Now, I&#8217;m interested in knowing more about your story.  I watched that YouTube video that you have, which shows photos of you growing up, leading up to the car crash, and then your marriage to Bonnie.  I would be very interested to know more.</p>
<p>I look forward to your response.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Chris</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-618</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iamjustwondering.net/2008/01/15/discussing-needs-and-human-social-fabrics/#comment-618</guid>
		<description>Chris,

I too identify with these two games. Too often I think many disassociate themselves with their own personal connection both to their needs and those of others in order to fulfill either gambit of the game. Life in itself is no longer personal but “Lorded over” by conceptualizations and corporate agendas (church, government, community social standards, ect.). Is that fair to say or overstated?

These needs to which you identify remind me a lot of ‘Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs’. I remember them because I struggled with the humanistic internal drive that Maslow seemed to depend on himself. I was glad to see the Spiritual needs you extended at the bottom.

Internal human needs most definitely drive much of what we do and shape the actions we take. However, “truth” (that is truth in needs) does not solely exist within internal frameworks whether personal or communal. Truth and the needs which it extends is an identity which lies both internally and externally from human nature and as such may contain more definement then we ourselves can comprehend.

A metaphorical example: I recently read Bob Goudzwaard’s book ‘Hope in Troubled Times’. In it he tells a story depicting human insight being like that of a submarine. We have a complete awareness to the realities and needs which make themselves apparent WITHIN the submarine. However, there are still many dangers and needs which exist outside of the submarine. To see them we must extend a periscope and look at 360* of where we find ourselves to be.

Likewise, if all we seek is to fulfill the “internal need”, we will only end up damaging our own outer natures and catastrophically perhaps fall pray to our own destruction/implosion.
What is our “periscope” in human nature? Personally, I feel we find it in the life and character of Jesus. He provides direction, leadership, hope, and truth. In him my needs are met.

Is this a strategy? Perhaps… but in truth I hope not. Is following a living example through personal connection a  “strategy”. I am not sure. In my inner most nature I try to rebel against forming strategy as you may have recognized my favorite quote from Gregory of Nyssa.

I am not meaning this in a black or white, right or wrong way. As I have written before, I write to put things out in front of me so that I can work it through. That said, I find myself drawn more to think of what needs I may have and how they relate to this “idea”. Am I being to “deconstructive”? What do you think? Am I over complicating things? In truth, I need to think more about this.

Chris, I would love to hear some of your story. Who and what is your “tribe”? In your bio you talk about counseling. Are you a councilor by profession? What kind of art do you practice? I would love to see some of it as I have family who are artists as well and I enjoy taking it in! Anyways, I look forward to your response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I too identify with these two games. Too often I think many disassociate themselves with their own personal connection both to their needs and those of others in order to fulfill either gambit of the game. Life in itself is no longer personal but “Lorded over” by conceptualizations and corporate agendas (church, government, community social standards, ect.). Is that fair to say or overstated?</p>
<p>These needs to which you identify remind me a lot of ‘Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs’. I remember them because I struggled with the humanistic internal drive that Maslow seemed to depend on himself. I was glad to see the Spiritual needs you extended at the bottom.</p>
<p>Internal human needs most definitely drive much of what we do and shape the actions we take. However, “truth” (that is truth in needs) does not solely exist within internal frameworks whether personal or communal. Truth and the needs which it extends is an identity which lies both internally and externally from human nature and as such may contain more definement then we ourselves can comprehend.</p>
<p>A metaphorical example: I recently read Bob Goudzwaard’s book ‘Hope in Troubled Times’. In it he tells a story depicting human insight being like that of a submarine. We have a complete awareness to the realities and needs which make themselves apparent WITHIN the submarine. However, there are still many dangers and needs which exist outside of the submarine. To see them we must extend a periscope and look at 360* of where we find ourselves to be.</p>
<p>Likewise, if all we seek is to fulfill the “internal need”, we will only end up damaging our own outer natures and catastrophically perhaps fall pray to our own destruction/implosion.<br />
What is our “periscope” in human nature? Personally, I feel we find it in the life and character of Jesus. He provides direction, leadership, hope, and truth. In him my needs are met.</p>
<p>Is this a strategy? Perhaps… but in truth I hope not. Is following a living example through personal connection a  “strategy”. I am not sure. In my inner most nature I try to rebel against forming strategy as you may have recognized my favorite quote from Gregory of Nyssa.</p>
<p>I am not meaning this in a black or white, right or wrong way. As I have written before, I write to put things out in front of me so that I can work it through. That said, I find myself drawn more to think of what needs I may have and how they relate to this “idea”. Am I being to “deconstructive”? What do you think? Am I over complicating things? In truth, I need to think more about this.</p>
<p>Chris, I would love to hear some of your story. Who and what is your “tribe”? In your bio you talk about counseling. Are you a councilor by profession? What kind of art do you practice? I would love to see some of it as I have family who are artists as well and I enjoy taking it in! Anyways, I look forward to your response.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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